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Posted on Wed, Apr 24, 2013 : 5:58 a.m.

Possibility of $1M cut in athletics has Ann Arbor Public Schools coaches worried

By Pete Cunningham

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Skyline athletic director John Young, left, and Huron athletic director Dottie Davis, right — pictured at a 2011 Ann Arbor Public Schools Board of Education meeting — may soon be tasked with making cuts to their athletic programs.

Angela J. Cesere | AnnArbor.com file photo

The Ann Arbor Public Schools Board of Education will be presented with a budget proposal on Wednesday, complete with a plan to reduce the athletics budget once again.

High school coaches in the district are worried what the athletic department will look like if $1 million has to be trimmed from the district's $3 million athletics budget, as was proposed back in December.

Cuts would be nothing new to athletics, with roughly $1.6 million being reduced from the budget from 2009 to 2011. In 2011, another $200,000 was cut from the athletics budget, followed by $188,500 this year.

"We've already been cut down to bare bones," said Pioneer golf coach Steve Rodriguez. "I don't know where $1 million could possibly come from."

School board member Christine Stead said based on the board packet, it appears the proposed cut that will be presented by the administration is less than $1 million, but Stead would not elaborate. Even if the cuts are less than $1 million, there is a fear among coaches about what cuts are coming down the line.

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Ann Arbor Public Schools Board of Education board member Christine Stead

Rodriguez has been a teacher at Pioneer for more than 30 years and a coach with the girls and boys golf programs since 1985. Since the $1 million figure originally was put out, Rodriguez has been part of discussions with coaches district-wide, parents and the district's three athletic directors about what those cuts might look like and trying to garner support for them not to happen.

"I've just been trying to let people know what's going on so they can let their voices be heard," Rodriguez said.

Huron athletic director Dottie Davis said she, Pioneer athletic director Eve Claar and Skyline athletic director John Young were tasked with drawing up plans to make $1 million in cuts work. Among the ideas included in the plans, school officials said, were cuts to middle school sports, increasing the pay-to-participate fee and eliminating some transportation to away games. The athletic directors said they have not been told what the final proposal the administration is presenting to the board will be.

The $1 million figure was put out when the district's deficit was projected as $17 million to $20 million. Recent projections have the district's deficit at $8.67 million.

"We don't know how much we're going to get cut yet, we're hoping the least," Davis said.

Rodriguez said framing the $1 million in cuts as a 33.3 percent reduction is misleading considering $800,000 of that budget is generated by the teams through methods such as pay-to-participate fees and ticket sales. He said the only place he can fathom more cuts is to cut coaches' salaries, further cuts to the transportation budget and referees fees. The district only pays for busing if a team competes outside of Washtenaw County during the week and has a $150 pay-to-participate fee with a $75 additional fee for a second sport.

"Now I'm not going to sit here and tell you that there's a lot of coaches that coach for money, but if you factor in the time we spend — in season, not even factoring in out of season — we're working for less than $1.15 an hour," Rodriguez said. "There's no program in Ann Arbor public schools that has a more cost effective way of educating our kids than we do in sports. (More cuts) just makes no sense."

"We've become much more involved in the business of fundraising and because we've been successful in spite of the support we've been given, I think that's why it's easy for them to say, 'oh we'll just cut athletics, it's not that big of a deal,' because we continue to be successful," Rodriguez added.

Rodriguez pointed out the academic benefits of sports such as providing an incentive for athletes to maintain a grade point average above 2.5, the minimum to be eligible to participate in varsity sports.

"Not only do we spend a great deal of time coaching and going through plays but we're also providing tutorial services and — teachers that are in the building — are constantly in contact with teachers for kids that are at risk," Rodriguez said. "You talk to some kids on that list, if you eliminate the incentive to get a 2.5, I don't know what would happen to them or the district if they don't keep a strong athletic program…I've had teachers tell me over and over again, if it weren't for a certain sport they would have a hard time getting Sally, Jimmy, Johnny or whoever to class."

The district saved $93,000 by moving lacrosse to a club sport in 2012-13. Pioneer girls coach Zachary Maghes has remained positive during the era of reduced spending on athletics, but is concerned what will happen if more sports suffer the fate lacrosse did.

"It's unfortunate, but we are making it work and will continue to build a strong program," Maghes said. "One concern I do have is if all teams become self-funded it may make for a lot of competition among teams in the community.

"On the flip side, I feel there are lots of opportunity as long as the community is willing to support student athletes."

Last year, $58,000 was cut from the budget by the district no longer paying entry fees for tournaments and $37,500 by eliminating middle school athletic directors.

"I think we're all as coaches trying to figure out where we go," said Pioneer boys basketball coach Rex Stanczak.

Rodriguez said he expects many parents, coaches and athletes to be on hand to speak up against any proposed cuts to athletics at Wednesday's Board of Education meeting.

"If they cut an additional $1 million, this is why I've finally spoke up, we won't be able to continue," Rodriguez said.

Pete Cunningham covers sports for AnnArbor.com. He can be reached at petercunningham@annarbor.com. Follow him on Twitter @petcunningham.

Comments

Dorchester

Thu, Apr 25, 2013 : 2:05 p.m.

Your photo of the 2 Athletic Directors says it all. The 3 AD's $115,000 + salaries and their support staff should be questioned. Why are they getting paid more than some of our Principals? Our coaches are toiling for peanuts and families are scrounging to find $180 + per student pay to play fees. One District AD and increase field and facility rentals could help cut our our deficit.

Tony Livingston

Thu, Apr 25, 2013 : 1:17 a.m.

One thing to be considered in this is that school is only one of many places that kids play sports today. There is an abundance of rec and ed and private sports organizations out there and they have thousands of kids participating. If you removed a lot of the sports from high school, the varsity players would simply fill the gap with the private travel teams that they are already playing on the rest of the year. Hockey, soccer, swimming, tennis. My guess is that most of the kids on these teams have already been playing in private leagues for years. Given the money shortages, it is time to move a lot of these sports away from public schools and focus on education.

Usual Suspect

Thu, Apr 25, 2013 : 12:41 a.m.

One thing the district could do is make the athletic facilities more available for use. In many towns, the facilities are seen as community resources. But in Ann Arbor, everything is locked-down, including the outdoor things like baseball and softball fields. You can't even use the batting cages - they have padlocks on it. What, so somebody doesn't steal the mud? Take a look around the high school in Saline some weekend. You will see all sorts of community-related events happening. Soccer, field hockey, baseball, and other leagues using the fields. But in Ann Arbor, we shut it all down, ignoring the fact that it's the people who own these fields. Rent out the facilities. Let travel leagues rent the baseball, softball, and other fields. Make some money off it that goes back into the athletics budget.

Dorchester

Thu, Apr 25, 2013 : 1:42 p.m.

It's Unreal that I agree with you!

chapmaja

Thu, Apr 25, 2013 : 12:30 a.m.

There is another aspect of this discussion people need to look at. If the AAPS decides to cut the salaries of coaches, how will affect the coaches in the district, and thus the quality of the teams, and the quality of experience for student athletes. Let's look at Pioneer High School as an example. Pioneer is home to several coaches who have been very successful for a very long time with their programs at Pioneer. Bryan Westfield, Don Sleeman, the Hill's (Denny and Liz), Coach Rodriguez. These coaches are all financially secure and would likely continue to coach until they decide to retire (The Hill's already partially have retired). What will happen when these positions open up and a new coach is needed. When coaches look for a school to coach, one thing they need to consider is their ability to make a living. Often this means finding a job in a district where they can also teach. That is unlikely to happen because AAPS won't be hiring new teachers any time soon. This could lead to the best candidates for coaching positions looking elsewhere and the AAPS schools being left with lower level coaches rather than the elite coaches they currently have. This alone won't cause to many problems, but it will trickle down to a potentially major problem. If a family knows that a school has sub par coaches, will they continue to send their child to that school to play for a sub par coach? Will they look instead to send their child to a district like Saline, Dexter, Ypsilanti, Milan, or Lincoln, which may have a better coach in their child's sport? Now that coaching decision isn't a little money. We could be talking $10,000 per student that decides not to attend and instead goes to one of the surrounding schools or decides to attend a charter school. This won't just affect athletics either. AAPS currently has wonderful leadership in theater, music, and arts programs as well. If the pay and support for these leaders diminishes,so could the enrollment.

Dirty Mouth

Wed, Apr 24, 2013 : 11:44 p.m.

What are we paying property taxes for if not to pay for our children's education? How dare you attempt to cut the AAPS budgets any further. Where is the state? Where is the state??? This is BUNK!

zucker

Wed, Apr 24, 2013 : 11:43 p.m.

get rid of skyline

Usual Suspect

Thu, Apr 25, 2013 : 12:18 p.m.

More kids get to play now. That's a good thing.

kris

Thu, Apr 25, 2013 : 1:20 a.m.

As a relative newcomer to AA (and parent of a Pioneer graduate), I am continually surprised how many parents continue to express bitter resentment that Skyline has "stolen" the athletic talent from Huron and Pioneer. It seems you may be one those folks zucker.

Usual Suspect

Thu, Apr 25, 2013 : 12:43 a.m.

Where does your kid go to school? Whatever your answer is, get rid of it.

zucker

Wed, Apr 24, 2013 : 11:46 p.m.

skyline athletics that is. keep the school as a school of choice like community, but let the kids play sport at pioneer and huron.

belboz

Wed, Apr 24, 2013 : 11:25 p.m.

When the budget for general education in AAPS is $88 million, I would think administration would only cost about 5% of that, or less than $5 million. Instead, it is over 11 million, well beyond 10% And Special Education is spending over $40,000 per student. $17.5 million per year for 391 students. Cutting $1 million from Athletics, on a $3.2 million budget, is pretty difficult to understand. If we are not charging Special Education, or Orchestra members, or others that have SPECIALTY use of AAPS, then what gives with Athletics? With obesity at record levels, with kids living in two parent work homes, I'd think athletics after school are more important now than every. Not including the social benefits. But, it seems the board is taking an easy way out instead of explaining the high cost of Special Education, Administration, and passing a new contract with teachers that doesn't meet the minimum 10% savings needed across the board to address the $18 million deficit.

kris

Thu, Apr 25, 2013 : 1:29 a.m.

AMOC: Thanks for clarifying!

AMOC

Thu, Apr 25, 2013 : 12:24 a.m.

Kris - NO. AAPS does not spend $40,000 per special education student or anything close to it. There are approximately 2000 students with IEPs in AAPS (the exact number is not available due to privacy laws). Special Education FTEs (full time equivalents) are not even very similar to employee FTEs. Special education FTEs are measured by counting the fraction of the School Count Day that any students receive special education services. Since many students with learning disabilities or mild disabilities receive services only once a week or twice a month, 4/5ths of those students generate no FTE "credit" at all. Also, AAPS is reimbursed from Federal, state and county tax dollars for approximately 80% of their special education expenditures. So while they might spend that $17.5M, they will get over $15M back.

AMOC

Thu, Apr 25, 2013 : 12:13 a.m.

Bellboz, the biggest difference between athletics and music and drams is that are for-credit for-credit subjects, part of the normal school curriculum. Plus, Ann Arbor spends significantly less than $1M annually on music rehearsal time (the equivalent of athletic practice)s) competitions and performances (the equivalent of games or meets). The cost of musical instruments, while significant, is a small fraction of the cost of athletic equipment, field houses and facilities. Many/most AAPS performances charge enough in admission fees to cover the cost of the auditorium and extra heating or cooling. But students are not and by law cannot be charged for their enrollment in for-credit classes. Physical education classes are treated the same, including the in-school conditioning classes required of most athletes during the season. Also, in spite of Glenn Nelson's mis-statements at previous board meetings, AAPS doesn't spend anything close to $40k per special education student. That $17.5 million covers the districts' spending on Positive Behavior Support (to address the discipline gap), a lot of consulting to Achievement Teams, and special education services provided to almost 2,000 students in the district, plus a certain number of students in high-need, low incidence specialized programs administered by WISD. AAPS is also reimbursed for almost 80% of that $17.5 million expenditure by Federal, state, or county funds, thanks to the Washtenaw County special education millage. And if you really want to address obesity and improve academic performance for almost every student, revise our school programs so that every able-bodied student has gym or plays an intramural sport every school day, instead of spending $3.5M to support 200 athletes per high school in 2 or 3 sports apiece. The social and health benefits would be MUCH more significant if athletics were much more equitably structured. See Dr. John Ratey's book "Spark" for more about that topic.

kris

Wed, Apr 24, 2013 : 11:54 p.m.

Does the district really spend $40,000 for each Special Ed student? Is that true...wow!

A Voice of Reason

Wed, Apr 24, 2013 : 11:12 p.m.

Can we get a list of staff, positions and salary by building? Number of sub hours? Talk about transparency?

A Voice of Reason

Wed, Apr 24, 2013 : 11:03 p.m.

I would like to know why the BOE is putting the citizens of this town in charge of making their own cuts? Everyone is passionate about what is important to them. Possible reasons include: 1. They want to make us feel important and feel like we have a part in begging for our "special" program to not be cut? Only the vocal parents are speaking, so I hope we do not teach reading to only those who ask to be taught to read. Academics and business people in town do not make decisions like these--they do a scientific poll. Clearly, representative parent input is not their goal. 2. They are trying to get support for an Enhancement Millage or Rec Millage --BINGO! Unfortuantley, this is not going to solve our problem. Since the BOE and our $750,000 plus Communications Director & 2-3 person Staff have not put the new teacher contract online yet (I wonder why not?), I am guessing that if a millage passes, then the teacher's do not have to take a cut. Does anyone know what is up with the AAEA contract for 2013-2014? Remember, they would rather cut sports than positions like the Communication Staff. Do we need 3 Admin. Assistants for each Middle School? Two for each Elementary School? With email, and cell phones, probably not!

Basic Bob

Thu, Apr 25, 2013 : 4:25 a.m.

The BOE is putting us in charge because the superintendent could not do it. Of course anything she would have tried to change, they would have vetoed. Same goes for the citizens. Don't think we are really in control of anything at all. Even our votes don't count. Re-election is virtually automatic.

A Voice of Reason

Wed, Apr 24, 2013 : 11:11 p.m.

unfortunately (spelling)

DonBee

Wed, Apr 24, 2013 : 10:05 p.m.

Current list of Pioneer sports [From the Pioneer Website] (MHSAA indicates that it considered a sport in Michigan by the MHSAA): Boys Cross Country MHSAA Boys soccer MHSAA Boys tennis MHSAA Boys Water Polo Crew Equestrian Field Hockey Football MHSAA Girls Cross Country MHSAA Girls Soccer MHSAA Girls Tennis MHSAA Girls Golf MHSAA Girls Swimming MHSAA Sideline Cheer Volleyball MHSAA Boys Basketball MHSAA Girls Basketball MHSAA Boys Hockey MHSAA Boys Swimming MHSAA Coed Bowling MHSAA Synchronized Swimming Wrestling MHSAA Baseball MHSAA Boys Golf MHSAA Boys Lacrosse MHSAA Boys Track and Field MHSAA Crew Girls Lacrosse MHSAA Girls Soccer MHSAA Girls Track & Field MHSAA Girls Water Polo Softball MHSAA Pioneer has all but 1 team sport that the MHSAA recognizes - Competitive Cheer! Please note the number of sports that are not recognized by the MHSAA in Michigan.

kris

Thu, Apr 25, 2013 : 1:13 a.m.

If you click on "Winter Sports 2013-2014" on the MHSAA website, you will see both boys and girls skiing clearly listed.

Usual Suspect

Thu, Apr 25, 2013 : 12:45 a.m.

Cheer is not a sport. It's noise.

DonBee

Thu, Apr 25, 2013 : 12:30 a.m.

Mr Mulchay - I don't see it on the sports page on the MHSAA website. I may have missed it but I looked twice.

Jim Mulchay

Wed, Apr 24, 2013 : 11:59 p.m.

The MHSAA sponsors down-hill skiing (men & women) - none of the Ann Arbor (or other SEC schools) offer skiing. (Brighton does!)

chapmaja

Wed, Apr 24, 2013 : 9:22 p.m.

Thoughtful, Nice try. I also have seen "older" kids officiate the 6th grade and rolldown teams at the middle schools. They all act like it is a joke when they do it. They have no clue what the rules are, and have even less of a clue about how to officiate in general. Also, they can't cut any more officials from the MS games. The sports I officiate at the AA middle schools already run with the minimum number of officials. Basketball needs a minimum of 2 officials per game, the number they use. Volleyball requires one official, the number they use. Softball should have 2 umpires, AA only uses one now. The simple fact is the AAPS would be better off cutting their MS athletics program completely, and letting everything run through Rec and ED, rather than trying to cut coaches salaries and officials pay. As for cutting pay for all officials. The AAPS will get what they pay for if they cut officials pay. They will get inexperienced officials who really will not be high enough quality to work the athletic events the teams are capable of performing. Now, as for the idea of teachers getting their pay back. I'd love that as well. I am a substitute teacher within the AAPS. I started in 1999, and since then we have seen $0 in raises. We have also been subcontracted to a private company and in the process lost the ability to contribute to the MiSPERS (retirement). I would love to have an increase in pay as a substitute teacher that is the same as the increase in pay that the regular teachers have gotten since 1999. I'm sure they are not at the same pay level as 1999, they are still well above that even with all of the cuts the teachers have taken the last couple years. The simple fact is the AAPS needs to look from the top down, rather than from the bottom up to fix their budget issues.

Thoughtful

Mon, Apr 29, 2013 : 8:24 p.m.

Chapmaja, if the older kids have "no idea what the rules are" how on earth do they play on the older team? Also, why does someone get paid $25 per hour to referee? It's not like it requires you to perform life saving measures. FYI, if they cut MS sports, you get no pay. No game, no pay. That's a lot less than paying a few bucks in taxes.

chapmaja

Thu, Apr 25, 2013 : 12:38 a.m.

A Voice of Reason, I have voiced a couple opinions on how to decrease costs and increase efficiency within Rec and Ed and have basically been shot down. These have involved the athletic offerings and scheduling, but the same old same old continues. I do know of a certain amount of waste that goes on that could be corrected, but certain people there don't agree. One of the expenses I know that have with Rec and Ed is mailing out paperwork. Just looking at my desk I have 6 items on my desk that have been sent to me in the last 3 months or less. Each of these costs Rec and Ed at least a first class stamp to send. At almost 50 cents per item mailing costs have to be expensive for Rec and Ed. My suggestion would have drastically reduced the amount of paper that gets sent out, but it was shot down. I would love to know how much Rec and Ed spends per year on paper and mailing costs. I would guess a lot of it could be eliminated by going to a more computerized system than certain departments currently use.

A Voice of Reason

Wed, Apr 24, 2013 : 10:30 p.m.

Rec & Ed lost $450,000 last year. Not sure they are the best example. Do we really need that huge staff there?

chapmaja

Wed, Apr 24, 2013 : 9:34 p.m.

One more thing regarding the AAPS and their methods of cutting pay. I also work the Rec and Ed department, which is a department of the AAPS. As an official I have in the last year, gone from being a school employee to being forced into an independent contractor status. What is the impact of this. Let's use this example. AA Rec and Ed's average official makes $2,000 per year in pay. There are for examples sake, 100 officials working all sports at the Rec and Ed level. That is $200,000 in referee pay paid last season. By moving the officials from school employees to independent contractors, the AAPS is no longer required to pay employee contributions for medicare and social security. The 7.65% is reduced from what the AAPS pay, in other words, the AAPS is saving $15,300 by moving the officials from employee to independent contractor status. At the same time the officials now have to pay self employment tax on that income. This means we are picking up that 7.65% the schools have stopped paying. I will use a typical Rec and Ed basketball day, which would be 2 games at $25 each as an example. Prior to being forced to become an independent contractor, the cost in salary and taxes for those 2 games would be $53.85 ($3.85 in payroll taxes, plus the 2 game fees). Now, as the officials who work the games, I am getting the same $50, but now I am having to pay 15.3% in taxes, not including income tax. I have effectively taken a pay cut of $3.85 (the school portion the payroll taxes). For those that say we should cut officials pay and we should be glad we got our pay back. We really haven't gotten our pay back, because changes in the way the AAPS pays officials have cut into that.

tim

Wed, Apr 24, 2013 : 9:15 p.m.

You also have to figure in departures (Lost revenues ) if students leave A2 schools to participate in their given sport in neighboring districts.

Thoughtful

Mon, Apr 29, 2013 : 8:10 p.m.

Aren't bowling and crew club sports? With coaches salaries paid by parents, not the district?

tim

Thu, Apr 25, 2013 : 2:23 a.m.

Probably not bowling --but if a sports program becomes weak and does not advance the skill level of the student I could see students leaving for a better program.

DonBee

Wed, Apr 24, 2013 : 9:48 p.m.

tim - Where in the local area can the go to row crew or join a bowling team? How many families would move over bowling?

davecj

Wed, Apr 24, 2013 : 9:10 p.m.

Plymouth-Canton has one Athletic Director for 3 high schools. It works there.

Basic Bob

Thu, Apr 25, 2013 : 4:22 a.m.

@kris, We can get them smart phones and they don't have to hitch up the wagon any more.

kris

Wed, Apr 24, 2013 : 10:21 p.m.

The 3 Plymouth-Canton high schools are on same campus within walking distance of each other, much easier to manage than 3 high schools scattered throughout the city.

DonBee

Wed, Apr 24, 2013 : 9:47 p.m.

chapmaja - At this point 2 "assistant" AD's both paid more at the administrative assistant level than the $100,000 level that each of the AAPS ADs get paid. There is 1 boss and 2 assistants. Total they cost about what 1.7 ADs cost AAPS and have more responsibility because they run much of the IM program in addition to the Varsity program. They also coordinate rental of school athletic facilities to outside groups.

chapmaja

Wed, Apr 24, 2013 : 9:35 p.m.

How many assistant AD's do they have? Look at little deeper and then come back to the table with that information please. You might find that they haven't cut the administration as deep as you think they have.

S_A2

Wed, Apr 24, 2013 : 8:27 p.m.

Revenue not Cuts! The Ann Arbor community can and will support an ecosystem of high quality public schools to serve ALL the children of our city. We believe that education is a right, not a privilege. I believe that physical education, the arts and languages are an integral and essential part of the education which our children need. Our schools are a necessity for the well being and future of our city. All efforts need to be directed to figuring out how to fund them, not how to cut them least painfully. What is preventing this essential need from being met? THINK BIG!

aaparent

Wed, Apr 24, 2013 : 8:03 p.m.

I recall hearing that when Skyline was built, the original plans included a 50-meter pool which could have been rented out for use by other swimming groups or the university of michigan or others to host meets. But this idea was voted down and Skyline's pool is not 50-meter but slightly less to make it equal to Pioneer and Huron. I may not have this correct. The gist of what I heard is that it was an opportunity to earn money for the district that was passed up due to costs but also political pressures from the board, not parents, not wanting to be in the hot seat more than they already were for approving the new high school construction. This might apply to other athletic facilities the district has that could be rented out for competitions. I think Saline hosts more tournaments for other sports and I don't know if it is profitable for that district. The new weight room at Skyline could be rented out to a physical therapy rehab program, for example, that might need evening hours

chapmaja

Wed, Apr 24, 2013 : 9:46 p.m.

I can not speak to the construction of Skyline's facilities, but I can say the pool is basically the same as Pioneer and Huron. I do have some knowledge of Saline's pool and athletic facilities. As a swimming official, I do MS meets, club meets, HS meets and college meets. From November to February I know the Saline pool hosted at least 4 USA swimming meets (Friday-Saturday-Sunday), none of which were hosted by the Saline team. The Saline Swim Team (age group), also hosted their conference championship meet in December. The pool also hosted 2 Saturday HS quad meets on Saturday's, plus the 2013 Boys SEC Swimming meet. I have been at Saline High for swim meets and have walked out of the pool to find both gyms being rented for basketball tourney's and the commons area in use for something else. I have also seen other aspects of the Saline schools used very regularly for events. The football stadium is rented in the fall for games involving a home school team. During the spring the stadium is used for the CCLA Lacrosse tourney. Saline does a wonderful job of renting their facilities out to groups willing to pay to use them. That rent money is a solid chunk of income for the Saline Area Schools. The only group the AAPS regularly "rents" facilities to that I am aware of is the Rec and Ed department. Rec and Ed rents facilities that they use, from the schools, even though Rec and Ed is an AAPS department. For that rent, we get gyms that have terrible temperature control, and may or may not get access to locker rooms or clean bathrooms. AAPS has lost a ton of potential revenue because of the facility use plan they have in place. They will continue to lose that money while at the same time Saline, and other surrounding districts are raking in the cash.

kris

Wed, Apr 24, 2013 : 8:14 p.m.

I recall hearing something similar.....that no one wanted Skyline to have a "better" pool than Pioneer and Huron. Meanwhile, Saline has excellent aquatic facilities and hosts numerous weekend long swim meets from various club programs in the state earning lucrative $ to support their HS programs.

Linda Peck

Wed, Apr 24, 2013 : 7:32 p.m.

I am with the people who support intramural sports and sports for all children who wish to participate. I support cutting the budget for sports in Ann Arbor Public Schools.

Usual Suspect

Thu, Apr 25, 2013 : 12:32 a.m.

"Sports for all children who wish to participate" That's Rec & Ed.

15crown00

Wed, Apr 24, 2013 : 7:20 p.m.

if you cut,cut,cut the coaches and the athletes will leave,leave,leave.

stinkywinkie

Wed, Apr 24, 2013 : 7:14 p.m.

The U.S. is the only country in the world that subsidizes athletics at this level. It's time for a change.

Usual Suspect

Thu, Apr 25, 2013 : 12:20 p.m.

So if the all the other countries jumped off a cliff...?

S_A2

Wed, Apr 24, 2013 : 8:29 p.m.

How do you know?

Tom Joad

Wed, Apr 24, 2013 : 7:04 p.m.

Triplication of athletic programs, coaches, staff and infrastructure is something the city quite simply can't afford if they are running such a high deficit. It's a myth that the economy of Michigan is improving to such an extent that we can continue funding these high-dollar programs. Consolidate them into one city-wide team for each sport and learn to live with reduced levels of participation. It's economic reality.

chapmaja

Wed, Apr 24, 2013 : 9:47 p.m.

Too bad that is not allowed. The MHSAA would only allow that if all the schools were combined into one building, something that will never happen. Look up the 3500 student rule the MHSAA has.

r treat

Wed, Apr 24, 2013 : 5:39 p.m.

Revenge of the Nerds!

Dirty Mouth

Wed, Apr 24, 2013 : 11:51 p.m.

Well, isn't that special.

A Voice of Reason

Wed, Apr 24, 2013 : 5:08 p.m.

Even the middle schools have teachers that are paid to be athletic directors.

Thoughtful

Mon, Apr 29, 2013 : 8:05 p.m.

Not any more. That was already cut.

Usual Suspect

Thu, Apr 25, 2013 : 12:22 p.m.

Somebody has to take care of the paperwork, communication with other schools, scheduling, transportation issues, eligibility issues, coordination of facility use (e.g, gym usage for practices), etc. They don't just sit around and read Sports Illustrated.

jackson west

Wed, Apr 24, 2013 : 5:05 p.m.

This is an easy solution. Lets have a pay to play alumni league where people that graduated from the ann arbor schools, or people that are dating students (legally) in the schools can play in an adult league against current students. I would personally love to play volleyball against high school girls. I would dominate, and a lot of my friends would also be interested in this. I also have a boat with an outboard motor and I think that would show those snobs on the crew team what's what.

Tex Treeder

Wed, Apr 24, 2013 : 4:51 p.m.

High schools with athletic directors? I know where I'd start cutting positions and save a couple hundred thousand.

Lon Horwedel

Wed, Apr 24, 2013 : 4:12 p.m.

To all of those who think the district could, or should, get by with one Athletic Director for all three high schools, may I suggest actually spending the day with any one of them, and then you'll be asking why they don't have assistant AD at every school.

lynel

Wed, Apr 24, 2013 : 10:02 p.m.

chapmaja, that's a joke, right?

chapmaja

Wed, Apr 24, 2013 : 9:51 p.m.

Tex. Read the SEC's constitution some time. Schools are REQUIRED to have an administrator on site at contests (both home and away), in several sports. This isn't just an SEC rule, it is also a liability issue for the school district. What happens if a fight breaks out in a Pioneer vs Huron basketball game and no administrators are on site. There will be lawsuits filed because the school failed to provide adequate supervision to the students attending the game.

Tex Treeder

Wed, Apr 24, 2013 : 5:46 p.m.

Thoughtful wrote: "I've seen John Young, who is Skylines athletic director, at countless home AND away games and meets. He seems to try to get to every one he can, even if he can only stay for a bit, then move on to the next one" We need an athletic director so he can go to games? However, I appreciate that he at least goes to the games. My child went to Huron, and the athletic director there was a fair weather friend. She made it quite clear that she was only there to see the team when they were winning. And the amount of sucking up that the parents did was amazing.

SonnyDog09

Wed, Apr 24, 2013 : 5:22 p.m.

However did the district survive before we went from one AD to three?

DonBee

Wed, Apr 24, 2013 : 4:58 p.m.

I spent 3 days with one of the AD at Plymouth Canton to understand how 3 high schools could be handled by 1 AD. I would suggest you do the same sir.

Thoughtful

Wed, Apr 24, 2013 : 4:55 p.m.

Just to be clear, I agree with Lon. I can speak for seeing John Young everywhere, but couldn't say for piHi or Huron.

Thoughtful

Wed, Apr 24, 2013 : 4:54 p.m.

I agree. Those who think that only one athletic director is needed have never been a parent volunteer or they would know better. I've seen John Young, who is Skylines athletic director, at countless home AND away games and meets. He seems to try to get to every one he can, even if he can only stay for a bit, then move on to the next one.

Tex Treeder

Wed, Apr 24, 2013 : 4:53 p.m.

"Busy" does not equal "Useful".

Nicholas Urfe

Wed, Apr 24, 2013 : 3:05 p.m.

They need to be more transparent with the spending. They need to disclose the budget for every sport and every team.

chapmaja

Wed, Apr 24, 2013 : 9:53 p.m.

No argument with that. The budget should be transparent withing each sport. It might shock people to see how much money is actually spent for sports, and where that money goes.

Nicholas Urfe

Wed, Apr 24, 2013 : 3:04 p.m.

They should be playing these sports for the *fun*. Not obsessing about winning, and spending a bunch of money to do so. It's just a game.

Nicholas Urfe

Fri, Apr 26, 2013 : 2:33 a.m.

Winning isn't evil. Taking money that should be for classroom education and using it to "win" at after school sports is.

Usual Suspect

Thu, Apr 25, 2013 : 12:29 a.m.

Winning is evil!

Chris Blackstone

Wed, Apr 24, 2013 : 2:41 p.m.

What about AAPS fielding only one team per sport for the entire district? Tryouts are held for anyone in the district interested in playing and games are held at the best facility for that particular sport. That would cut down costs while greatly increasing the team's talent-level.

Usual Suspect

Thu, Apr 25, 2013 : 12:24 p.m.

"What about AAPS fielding only one team per sport for the entire district?" No.

FoolzGold

Thu, Apr 25, 2013 : 2:42 a.m.

@ Kylie Austin ....declining enrollment, like how Pioneer went from 3000 students to 1600 students. Pioneer teams can barely filed enough players to support having strong programs. I vote unified so there's less opportunity for everyone......joking.

Usual Suspect

Thu, Apr 25, 2013 : 12:28 a.m.

You would end up playing Brother Rice every weekend.

chapmaja

Wed, Apr 24, 2013 : 10 p.m.

One, it is illegal under the MHSAA's rules. Co-Op programs (more than 1 school involved in fielding a team), are very limited under the MHSAA's rules. In most sports a co-op team can not involve Class B or Class A schools. That kills it right there. Next, the MHSAA has a 3,500 student rule. No co-op team can be made up of schools with a combined enrollment of greater than 3,500 students. The 3 AAPS HS's would be well above that. Finally, co-op programs would require the permission of the conference in which the primary school resides. The SEC schools would NEVER vote to agree. If the AAPS ever even presented such an idea to the SEC, the odds are better that the 2/3 required vote would be to expel the 3 AAPS schools from the conference. One solution to that obstacle would be to leave the MHSAA. That's fine until you realize that sports like football and basketball would not be able to get competition. MHSAA regulations require a football (and I'm pretty sure basketball) programs to compete against members in good standing of the MHSAA or another bone fide high school athletic association. Yes they might be able to get games in those sports, but it could require trips to Florida, New York, Virginia, and other out of state schools, because no teams in Michigan could play the AAPS schools if they dropped from the MHSAA.

Kyle Austin

Wed, Apr 24, 2013 : 5:40 p.m.

That sort of thing is done in districts with declining enrollments and participation, where it needs to be done to field a team. Nobody would ever want to schedule a team that draws from the combined enrollments of three Ann Arbor high schools.

AnnArBo

Wed, Apr 24, 2013 : 2:47 p.m.

That's called a unified team and would require approval from MHSAA, which I'm sure would never happen, you would have a huge advantage over other class A non unified schools.

rrt911

Wed, Apr 24, 2013 : 2:29 p.m.

My first thought after reading the title---why doesn't the University of Michigan kick in whatever dollars are needed. If the City of Ann Arbor collected more tax money-perhaps there would not be such a deficit, requiring the school system to reduce their spending on helping kids get exercise. What say all of you?

DonBee

Wed, Apr 24, 2013 : 4:03 p.m.

Athletics has NOTHING to do with exercise in the schools. PE and Athletics are different and nothing in this effort changes PE at all.

Great Lakes Lady

Wed, Apr 24, 2013 : 2:28 p.m.

If the kids don't need sports....then do they not need music, art, photography, ceramics, etc.? Then the argument is to focus only on core curriculum...math, science, English. FACT: Student-athletes have a higher GPA when in season.

DonBee

Wed, Apr 24, 2013 : 4:02 p.m.

Ms GL Lady - Show me the money! I have not found a single peer reviewed report that supports your claim. Give me some links to the database or report you are using please! As far as I can tell, in several years of research is this a myth, but I am willing to change my mind if you have peer reviewed facts.

Chris

Wed, Apr 24, 2013 : 4:01 p.m.

Chris, your argument about "wanting to be eligible" supports why extracurricular sports (or other activites that require a minimum GPA) are a good thing, since they boost academic performance. I'm sick of reading about high school sports as "elite." What's wrong with someone making a team and someone else gets cut? Suck it up. It's part of life. Some kids are picked to perform in plays, or orchestras and bands - should we cut those programs because some kids aren't able to participate?

Chris Blackstone

Wed, Apr 24, 2013 : 2:34 p.m.

Is there data for AAPS to support the "higher GPA" fact? Could it all be chalked up to wanting to be eligible? I know college sports release the GPA averages of their "student-athletes." It would be interesting if AAPS did the same so we understood how well the athletes are achieving in the classroom. As a Huron alum, it's nice if the teams do well, but if the school itself is turning out students unprepared for life after high school, that's of significantly greater concern.

Kevin McGuinness

Wed, Apr 24, 2013 : 2:23 p.m.

It water passed the bridge but too bad people did not think about the on-going expense of three high school when they built Skyline - 3 Olympic quality swimming pools, six artificial turf playing fields, base ball diamonds with electronic score boards(??), a new field house next to Holloway Field (construction cost is gone but these things cost money for utilities and to maintain). Maybe in the future we can think about maintenance costs before continuing the on-going building. One thing we can do now is treat Skyline even more like Community and let the students at Skyline tryout for teams at either Pioneer or Huron depending on their geography rather than have thier own teams (Just like Community). More needs to be done for intramural sports. I would like to know what the participation rate is there compare to the varsity sports. We need more participation not more elite competition. Consideration should be given to basing pay to play on the net costs (expenses less revenue) to run the individual sports. This is certainly fairer and will put more focus on the sport's costs. I would hope that there is a mechanism to reduce the cost to play for low income families.

DonBee

Wed, Apr 24, 2013 : 4:57 p.m.

Kris - No, that is not what I am saying, both Huron and Pioneer are great high schools, but based on the lack of players for some teams in some of the high schools right now ( I know my children have been recruited by several coaches even though they don't have a travel team background). Two schools with varsity teams would have been enough. One school without teams and focused on academics and the ability to choose between 3 great high schools would have been a good balance. Look at the IB program or the WTMC, or the Eastern program, none of them have an athletic program and all of them grew out of the fact that nothing like it existed in the existing schools. We lost students to other programs because Skyline was another Pioneer/Huron - not something different. Many parents who pushed for Skyline to be different are now not district parents anymore their children are in IB, WTMC, Eastern, etc.

kris

Wed, Apr 24, 2013 : 4:23 p.m.

DonBee: your response here seems to suggest that you believe high-achieving, academically focused students are NOT interested in also having a varsity level sports experience.

DonBee

Wed, Apr 24, 2013 : 4 p.m.

Mr McGuinness - Many of us did. Arguing that Skyline could work best as a magnet school and home of some of the specialized learning communities (e.g. Roberto Clemente). That the building should NOT have varsity athletic facilities, but rather more classroom space and labs. Students who wanted Athletics could attend Huron or Pioneer and those that were academically focused could attend Skyline in STEM or Health sciences. The school would still have IM programs and a gym for PE, but football field or other Varsity trappings. This would have improved the LEED score for the building, reduced cost, staffing and allowed the building to open all at once, instead of the 4 year rollout to prevent students already on teams from transferring to Skyline (this was a BIG factor in the 4 year rollout of Skyline).

Thoughtful

Wed, Apr 24, 2013 : 3:14 p.m.

So you're saying kids should get to attend Skyline, but if its to their benefit they should play sports at Pioneer or Huron? Don't go to Skyline if you aren't invested in the school. They don't need your mentality. If kids at Community were given the choice, I doubt they'd be running to the "weakest team" in sports in the district.

Great Lakes Lady

Wed, Apr 24, 2013 : 2:22 p.m.

Obama playbook transparency: hit where it hurts kids to manipulate parents. Do the right thing: cut the fat, such as redundant administrative costs.

AnnArBo

Wed, Apr 24, 2013 : 2:18 p.m.

This is a classic case of something extra curricular that takes on entitlement untouchable status. I'm a huge sports supporter, having coached and had three kids play sports. At the varsity level, only the best kids make the team with limited spots, yet public tax dollars are spent to provide something that is not available to all students. Just about all these varsity athletes come from travel programs that cost much more than the pay to play school fee, and moving to school subsidized varsity actually saves them money, so asking for a bigger contribution thru pay to play must be on the table. Until the economy rebounds, which will bring in more revenue across the board, everything has to be on the table or you're going to be paying more in taxes for something that is not available to all students.

Thoughtful

Wed, Apr 24, 2013 : 4:03 p.m.

My kid plays 3 high school sports, despite never having been on any travel team- and he's great at all 3. Only played one in middle school, and the other two started in high school. There are currently varsity teams that make NO cuts at that level. Take the Skyline mens lacrosse team, for example. They take everyone, make no cuts. Instead there are umpteen kids paying hundreds of $ to pay a club varsity sport, who never get play time, and instead watch from the sidelines. I would rather see limited spots, as it is more fair instead of making kids think they will get to play.

DonBee

Wed, Apr 24, 2013 : 1:54 p.m.

AAPS has a wide range of sports teams, from bowling to crew. Most schools do NOT have and support this wide a range of sports. Many have a small, but deeply involved community that support them. The question is should AAPS support sports that have very few local opponents? Do those sports belong in Rec&Ed instead or as club sports that get less in the way of funding? Should coaches all have to be paid? Why is it that qualified local volunteers from the UofM and elsewhere are not welcomed with open arms? Is it because the teachers see this as a way to get more pay? Is this the right thing to do? Do we need a culture of sports that is win at all costs (remember the Huron/Pioneer football outcome)? Do we really need 3 athletic directors? Really? The estimates for the total money floating around in the sports programs range from a low of $4 million (ignore everything but direct transfers) to over $20 million ($3 million transfer from the general fund, $800,000 in tickets sales, $8 million in facilities maintenance and operations costs, and booster money that is estimated at $8 million or more a year). If you want to find an opaque part of the budget, this is it! If we want to have a discussion that is an honest discussion about what sports costs, much more information needs to be forthcoming to the public. Without it the Athletic directors can play rumor games with all of us. It is up to the BOE to make this available or continue to watch the rumor games happen, fragmenting the community overall.

aaparent

Wed, Apr 24, 2013 : 7:49 p.m.

The legal issues are a problem for a college to supply coaches for sports that might want to recruit an athlete to their team in college. I think that the NCAA has rules about how much contact any college coach, even a volunteer, can have with a high school athlete. The other problem with volunteers from outside the school are the need to develop a new set of background checks and policies for working with youth athletes. In addition, the high school sports competitive practice and match or game schedules are pretty tailored around the routines and schedules of high school students, teachers and families . A college volunteer would be unlikely to have the exact time free to coach and attend competitions, which can create a host of problems. The basic ideas for debate though that DonBee raises are ones I agree with , but the college coach or volunteer coach idea is fraught with problems. The rumor mill and politics of athletic directors and families of athletes are fair points. But there are some teams and sports that have coaches who handle this better than others. How many athletic directors in the district are needed and what the key parts of their jobs would be is an important question. I am curious what was learned from the Plymouth ADD and how that district manages. The district is different than Ann Arbor because I think the high schools are not located far apart or are on the same campus

kris

Wed, Apr 24, 2013 : 5:19 p.m.

DonBee: in the sports my kids play, there are in fact, volunteer coaches that include parents and UM and EMU students who are are former HS players. In two cases, there is one additional paid assistant coach. None of my kids play football so I'm not aware of how many paid assistant coaches there are in that marquee sport.

DonBee

Wed, Apr 24, 2013 : 4:52 p.m.

Kris - Simple question: How many paid coaches does a team need? 1, 4, 10? You tell me. If the head coach is paid, why can't some of the other coaches be volunteers?

kris

Wed, Apr 24, 2013 : 3:59 p.m.

DonBee: you usually have a lot of great ideas but volunteer UM student coaches and eliminating athletic directors would equal uncontrolled mayhem on the fields and in the gyms. Might as well eliminate varsity sports under that scenario. Many commenters, in fact, have suggested as much and that may well be where we are headed in the future....school sports evolving into more of a rec and ed type model. However, if AAPS were to be the first district in the area to make such a change, I think families will bolt in droves to school of choice districts like Saline. New families moving in from out of state will choose to buy homes in other towns. Many of my neighbors and coworkers have the financial means to send their kids to private schools but choose not to because they want their kids to have a competitive high school sports experience.

Chris

Wed, Apr 24, 2013 : 3:56 p.m.

ThinkingOne, volunteer coaches are already utilized in Rec & Ed sports. I coached for seven years in the program. There's no reason the same legal protections that must be in place for those volunteers could not be extended to high school teams.

DonBee

Wed, Apr 24, 2013 : 3:55 p.m.

Thinking One - Think about this, in many cases those volunteer coaches will be PE teachers in a year or two and then would be responsible for a team. In the case of the football team for instance, there are several coaches, say the head coach is paid and the rest are volunteers? For bowling - why do we need a paid coach? Why not a background checked parent? In the case of crew, if you go to a meet, there are parents everywhere with more experience and knowledge than the coach. How many paid staff do we need to handle the crew team, how many can be volunteers? This is the issue, that no one wants to talk about. How many paid vs how many volunteers do we need per team. In my high school, we had 1 paid coach ($200 a season) and 4 volunteers to run the team. Do all the positions really need to be paid? Remember if you are a coach you teach fewer classes in some cases. So paid coaches are a double hit on the budget in these cases.

aamom

Wed, Apr 24, 2013 : 3:07 p.m.

Do we have a lot of UM coaches knocking on our doors wanting to volunteer? If yes, then certainly we should switch to volunteer coaches. I'm guessing we don't because being a (good) coach takes a lot of time.

ThinkingOne

Wed, Apr 24, 2013 : 2:47 p.m.

I am sure there would be potential legal issues if you ran an entire team with a college volunteer. Not to mention how many parents would trust their child's well-being under this scenario? And I am not even convinced that there are college volunteers that would actually be ready willing and able to run an entire competitive athletic team and be legally responsible for anywhere from 12 to 60 teenagers - especially for free. But sure, once again blame it on teachers.

Nerak

Wed, Apr 24, 2013 : 1:51 p.m.

I'm all for eliminating some sports or converting to IM play. Athletics have their place, but the overwhelming emphasis should be in the classroom.

Thoughtful

Wed, Apr 24, 2013 : 1:38 p.m.

I like the idea of raising the minimum required GPA. The thought that you "can only be failing one class" is just plain sad. If you are academically ineligible for a sport, you shouldn't be allowed to be on the field or at practice. Why have repetitive grade checks and allow kids to play half way through the season? Do the work in the first place to be eligible. More incentive to keep their grades up. Also, if every kid was REQUIRED to participate in team fund raisers, there would be more financial support for sports. If you have the ability to walk onto a playing field, you can walk around participating in a fundraiser. You can work in a concession stand. Yet those who don't pay to play get off the hook constantly. You don't have to buy the stuff yourself in order to participate.

clownfish

Wed, Apr 24, 2013 : 1:37 p.m.

Focus on academics, if there is money left over then the kids can play. The life lessons learned in sports can easily be learned in the classroom and or gym class.

Usual Suspect

Wed, Apr 24, 2013 : 10:04 p.m.

Plenty... teamwork, leadership, respect, hard physical work and improvement, and healthy competition. I realize the latter is now frowned upon by some people, but of course they're wrong. Which group of kids did a bus driver recently tell me say are the ones who say, "Thank you" when they exit the bus? Athletes.

Eep

Wed, Apr 24, 2013 : 5:54 p.m.

@nekm1 - On a per capita basis, Canada does better at the Olympics than the United States. Canada (total population 34.5 million) won 18 medals at the 2012 Summer Olympics. The US (total population 314 million) won 104 medals. You can do the rest of the math.

Chris

Wed, Apr 24, 2013 : 3:54 p.m.

Sports offer kids a chance at leadership, being part of a group focused on a goal, the need to be relied upon and to rely on teammates, to understand how/when to speak up or keep quiet, etc. Show me how these things happen in chem lab? Learning takes place everywhere with our kids, including on the diamond, pitch or at the pool.

nekm1

Wed, Apr 24, 2013 : 3:35 p.m.

That must be why Canada does so well in the Olympics!

clownfish

Wed, Apr 24, 2013 : 2:23 p.m.

US, what lessons can be learned only on the lacrosse field? What did you learn in sports that you put on your resume'?

Pete Cunningham

Wed, Apr 24, 2013 : 2:11 p.m.

I went to college - sorry, "university" - in Canada where next to zero dollars is put into school sports. Not coincidentally, none have of my friends have any sort of connection with their old schools. Zero. When they go home, they don't visit, they don't read about their schools in the local paper, they don't donate money to fundraisers, etc. There is zero sense of community tied to the school once students leave and many were amazed when I did, as if I was a character out of Saved by the Bell. It's a uniquely American thing, our sense of community built around high school sports, but I think it's a positive thing. Of course, Canada's public schools also pay teachers much higher salaries with better benefits and consistently performs better academically than American schools, so take that all for what it's worth.

Usual Suspect

Wed, Apr 24, 2013 : 2:01 p.m.

"The life lessons learned in sports can easily be learned in the classroom and or gym class." To use a sports expression: Error.

GratefulReb

Wed, Apr 24, 2013 : 1:32 p.m.

The hits just keep coming. I would love to read something positive about A2...aside from some bogus ranking in a top ten list. Our roads are a complete mess, blight everywhere and the school district is not fairing much better than the graffiti riddled shack on Main and Summit. A2 needs to seriously consider asking the university for a loan or donation. The university is sitting on 7 billion $'s and I have to believe it helps them if A2 is in better shape. The university wants to attract top professors and students and i suspect it gets harder when the outside world reads about the mess that is currently A2.

My2bits

Wed, Apr 24, 2013 : 1:18 p.m.

The AA public schools should welcome rugby. It is one of the most popular sports in the world and inexpensive to support. There are many high school rugby programs, both boys and girls, around the area and the state. There are coaches who volunteer, or would accept small salaries. There is a local team, but the schools won't support it. They do in Brighton and Dexter, but not in Ann Arbor.

Dirty Mouth

Wed, Apr 24, 2013 : 11:54 p.m.

A2 doesn't do a lot of things and that includes Rugby.

Thoughtful

Wed, Apr 24, 2013 : 3:55 p.m.

You paying for those senseless trophies? Why try to get good grades in school, then? College admissions aren't competitive- they take everyone AND give you participation trophies. My guess is that you have a kid who is not athletic. There's nothing wrong with that. Everyone has different strengths. But instead of helping your kid find something he/she is good at, you choose to criticize competitive sports. Sorry, but trying to adjust the world so it's not realistic doesn't help your kid.

Thoughtful

Wed, Apr 24, 2013 : 3:44 p.m.

So rugby is a rather passive sport, few injuries on the field, no medical or liability insurance needed?

nekm1

Wed, Apr 24, 2013 : 3:25 p.m.

That is too rough a sport.. Are you crazy? There are many games that can be played like flag football, T ball, and others that don't invite sporting injuries or accidents. Maybe participation trophies for all students, would replace this senseless need for competition.

drewk

Wed, Apr 24, 2013 : 2:15 p.m.

How does help reduce the budget ?

Jim Mulchay

Wed, Apr 24, 2013 : 1:12 p.m.

A difficult issue - Perhaps the a way to justify sports is the ACADEMIC improvement of students that would fall into the various "at risk" categories; If the schools can illustrate (within the various privacy constraints) academic improvement of students they would (in my opinion) have some clout in the discussion; Also if they can illustrate the participation across classes (academic. financial and social) it would illustrate the cross-section of students involved. (This would also be - in my opinion - a good measure of any extra-curricular activities); The elite student-athletes will do well anywhere - but an extra-curricular program that helps the weak student to improve in class and the mediocre athlete to participate on the field would seem to be a positive impact on the student body; Some sports (ice hockey, tennis, swimming, golf, gymnastics, basketball (AAU)) have a strong non-scholastic presence, but these cater to the elite, not the normal student; As far as coaches - I know some (mainly also teachers) and have the highest regard for them. As seasons get stretched and budgets get cut there is often little consideration of the pressures on teacher-coaches(and their families). The alternative? At some point you get the coach how knows the sport - but may not recognize that the sport is only a part of the scholastic experience; In the end, though, the role of the schools is education - and when push comes to shove the academic element should come first;

aaparent

Wed, Apr 24, 2013 : 7:52 p.m.

The district rule for eligibiity for athletes should be revisited. I think the academics first could be addressed by making the GPA needed to be eligible for sports higher. I am not sure what it is but think it is below a 2.5.

Thoughtful

Wed, Apr 24, 2013 : 3:42 p.m.

What teams have no at-risk students? Every team my four kids have been on has had at least someone who is ineligible. And EVERY school that I have attended a football game at always has academically ineligible kids on the sidelines. Which school is that? I'd love to see the coaches not have to waste time and energy, not to mention FREE tshirts and other team gear on ineligible kids. Cut some costs right there. If you're not academically eligible, you don't get the freebies.

DonBee

Wed, Apr 24, 2013 : 1:56 p.m.

Mr Mulchay - According to the discussions I have had with several coaches, they have no at risk students on their teams, they can't afford the disruption of having someone told they have to sit out for grades.

edredneck

Wed, Apr 24, 2013 : 1:10 p.m.

The point of the article seems to be that the writer had a little down time and didn't have anything to write about anything else. Just poke a stick at someone else, and voila!; there's a major problem that no one knew about until the article was published.......

Pete Cunningham

Wed, Apr 24, 2013 : 2:46 p.m.

Just to clarify, the meeting at which the proposed cuts referred to in the article will be presented to the public is tonight. The links in the article are to previous coverage of the topic.

CONCERNED CITIZEN

Wed, Apr 24, 2013 : 1:07 p.m.

Maybe they should consider cutting the salaries of some of their coaches/gym teachers. We have one in the family that claims he makes $98,000.00 a year, ridiculous! for teaching non-academic classes, and he is on the lower end of the intelligence scale!

A Voice of Reason

Wed, Apr 24, 2013 : 5:05 p.m.

Does that include benefits? 65% of all working days possible and 7 hour days, 12 vacation/sick days.

towncryer

Wed, Apr 24, 2013 : 4:02 p.m.

He sounds like my kids' gym teacher....to a T!

nekm1

Wed, Apr 24, 2013 : 12:55 p.m.

I think it is time to understand that the competition of High School Sports is no longer needed. The level playing field in the classroom (no longer spearheading excellence with outdated ideas like Valedictorians or Salutatorians - as they are unfair to others that don't graduate with those honors) it is time that we adjust High School Sports as well. There are plenty of games the kids can play, that don't involve busing to other schools or huge expenditures of money for uniforms or gear or coaches. It is time to make High School sports intramural, and simplify. Soccer is easy for boys and girls, and so is basketball. Pools are expensive to maintain, as are football fields, and baseball diamonds. Limit participation in those sports to Y programs or churches.

M-Wolverine

Thu, Apr 25, 2013 : 3:07 p.m.

@Nekm1 But you said pools, fields, and diamonds. Not the sport. Both football and soccer are played on grass fields with lines painted on them and metal structures at the goal. And a soccer field is much bigger, so more expensive to mainain. If you want to argue equipment and such you can, but stop presenting a moving target with your argument.

J. A. Pieper

Wed, Apr 24, 2013 : 7:38 p.m.

Yes, the district eliminated Valedictorians & Salutatorians, along with number rankings of senior students because there were not enough students from a specific culture represented in these areas.

Thoughtful

Wed, Apr 24, 2013 : 3:33 p.m.

I can imagine the look I'd get if I suggested to the high school soccer coach that all he or she needed was some chalk and a ball. Do you think the gals are free? That are expensive. You obviously don't have a high school kid nekm1, or else you are only a spectator, never a volunteer who has to look at team fees needed for costs involved in a sport. Tell me what church runs a football team? Did the AA YMCA start a high school league that we are all unaware of? When one of my kids was younger, a teammate tripped in a rut on the grassy field during a soccer game and broke his arm. But I guess a little chalk would have fixed him right up. There's also a safety factor involved- which is why there are freshmen only teams for some sports. If kids don't have competitive sports in high school, some will NEVER attend college.

Usual Suspect

Wed, Apr 24, 2013 : 1:59 p.m.

Believe me, if you took a close look at the quality of the high school baseball fields, you would be convinced the school spends no money on them.

Thoughtful

Wed, Apr 24, 2013 : 1:43 p.m.

Really? So go play soccer on the rutted grass fields and break some ankles. The reality is soccer hasn't ever brought in the revenue that football does. How many people attend Michigan soccer games compared to football? Get a clue.

nekm1

Wed, Apr 24, 2013 : 1:20 p.m.

Soccer fields can be anywhere any time. A little chalk and a couple of goals and there you are. Shorts and shoes and a ball. Pretty simple. From the Atlanta Constitution newspaper: "Who's at the top of the Class of 2012? At some private and public schools, no one knows. More schools are refusing to rank seniors and choose valedictorians. Today headmaster Paul Bianchi writes that schools should focus on learning, not rivalry and competition." Scholastic competition has no business in our public schools. It is unfair and unjust.

NoPC

Wed, Apr 24, 2013 : 1:18 p.m.

@nekm1--I suppose you also support giving all those kids who participated in soccer championship trophies just for participating??? I suppose later in life, perhaps those kids may also feel entitled to a job just for showing up, right??

aamom

Wed, Apr 24, 2013 : 1:14 p.m.

Are there really no longer valedictorians/salutatorians? That's sad. Are soccer fields really that much cheaper than football fields to maintain?

M-Wolverine

Wed, Apr 24, 2013 : 1:07 p.m.

So a football field is expensive to maintain, but a soccer field is not? Okay.....

jayjay

Wed, Apr 24, 2013 : 12:32 p.m.

If one looks at athletics as simply sports and something for a few out of the larger population, it is easy to say "Cut!" And unfortunately, the history of many sports in many of our schools has led to putting sports above academics and treating certain athletes as superior to other students. The "jock" mentality has not helped the sports reputation in our schools, and in many cases, coaches are their own worst enemy. I am not saying that is the case for Ann Arbor, but our love affair with sports has too often put academics in the back seat. But if you think about what sports can mean to life in general, to school spirit, to community involvement, it is hard to say that sports do not have a place in our schools. There does, however, need to be a balance. And it is finding that balance that is difficult because there is not set of universal facts to guide us. Too often it is a purely emotional argument. I do not envy the school board having to make this decision.

Mike

Wed, Apr 24, 2013 : 1:39 p.m.

Music should be cut an equal amount......................so should all other school funded activities not related to the education of our kids.

Eep

Wed, Apr 24, 2013 : 12:30 p.m.

The article mentions a discussion between the district's three athletic directors regarding ways to cut costs. Maybe the district only needs one athletic director?

chapmaja

Wed, Apr 24, 2013 : 10:11 p.m.

We moved from one district AD to one per building when schools went from having basically 8 total sports (tennis, golf, cross country, football, basketball, wrestling, baseball, and track for men only) to 10 plus sports per gender at each school. Add in the fact many of these programs operate a varsity, JV and at one time freshman team (something the AAPS cut drastically already), and the AD is in charge of possibly 30-40 different teams each school year. Back when school had one district AD and no assistant AD's, they could get away with little extra help. Now you have 30-40 teams, with that many different coaches to deal with. You need to get officials scheduled for those games. Deal with the transportation department to transport athletes to these events. You have to deal with parents who always thing their child should be starting when they don't have the talent to be anywhere but the bench, except maybe the stands. The simple fact is the job of an AD is nowhere near as easy as people think it is. The amount of paper work for an AD, as well as for teachers and administrators is continually increasing. That paperwork takes time to complete.

Eep

Wed, Apr 24, 2013 : 5:43 p.m.

@Blerg - I have absolutely no doubt that the athletic directors are extremely hard-working people who care deeply about students. But with a multi-million dollar deficit that isn't going away - and looking at similar-sized districts with only one athletic director - it seems like cutting high-level administrators might be a lessor evil than cutting entire sports, cutting assistant coaches, cutting academic programs, or raising pay-to-play fees. The work that the athletic directors are doing is important - but maybe it can be split among coaches, principals and vice-principals, and lower-paid clerical staff members.

Blerg

Wed, Apr 24, 2013 : 5:11 p.m.

Only someone with no knowledge of how hard ADs work could make such an ignorant comment. I coached for five years, and I learned that ADs work long hours attending late games, deal with crazy parents, players, and opposing teams, and have daily scheduling nightmares with space, transportation, refs, and everything else people expect to be ready to go at practice and for competitions.

SonnyDog09

Wed, Apr 24, 2013 : 4:01 p.m.

Bingo! When did we move from one athletic director for a district to one for each high school?

ms24

Wed, Apr 24, 2013 : 12:28 p.m.

Which teams gets a bus to sporting events? This has never happened for my student's teams. Parents drive to everything on their own dime. There is no bus no matter where the match is. Perhaps the over inflated under performing teams should be considered for reduction. How about the best performing teams get funded? Or perhaps the teams with the best academic average? This would mean that football would be up for cuts considering what happened last season. Is that even being talked about?

Bob Loblaw

Wed, Apr 24, 2013 : 6:48 p.m.

*** I meant the "only on the weekENDS...."

Bob Loblaw

Wed, Apr 24, 2013 : 6:47 p.m.

In addition to buses only being available for out of area games, they're also only available on weekdays. My kid's sport only has competitions on weekdays, due to them lasting the entire day, so even when we have to go out of state we don't get buses.

Usual Suspect

Wed, Apr 24, 2013 : 1:56 p.m.

Busses are used for transportation to destinations outside Washtenaw County. I believe some sports prefer to use the parent transportation plan because it's more reliable.

Thoughtful

Wed, Apr 24, 2013 : 1:27 p.m.

The reality is that football brings in far more revenue, than say, tennis. Part of what determines who gets a bus is how much equipment is involved. Football players have their shoulder pads and helmets. Tennis players, for example, have a racquet. Some teams also bring in less player fees, due to a smaller size team, whereas larger teams may supplement the few $ they get from the district with excess player fees in order to pay for a bus.

aamom

Wed, Apr 24, 2013 : 1:04 p.m.

Are you actually suggesting that if the teams don't win they don't get any money? Unbelievable. "No pressure kids, but if you lose our program gets cut!"

outdoor6709

Wed, Apr 24, 2013 : 12:13 p.m.

I do not disagree with Mr Rodriquez's assertion that sports are an important part of the educational process. Mr Rodriguez may want to take a second look at his math. If he makes $3,000 for a season as golf coach, he is claiming to have spent 2609 hours coaching. On second thought maybe AA.com should fact check their stories before they write them.

chapmaja

Thu, Apr 25, 2013 : 12:17 a.m.

I agree that math doesn't make sense. The pay for the coaching position is detailed in the teacher contract, so that information could be accurate. The $1.15 per hour however is not an accurate pay amount. I know when I was an assistant track coach (not in AA, but in an AA Area school district), the pay for the lone assistant coach position was roughly $2600. We had to split that between 2 assistant coaches just to have enough coaches to safely and successfully run the team. When I figured my hourly pay one season, it came out to roughly $3.50 per hour. That didn't include duties outside the practices and meets. I was a split position, so for a single assistant that pay would be roughly $7.00 per hour at best. Considering that is below the minimum wage, coaches really don't make much money. I would be interested to see the AAPS master contract, which spells out how much each coach makes. The pay amount used to be based on hours worked with a certain amount per hour. I don't know if the latest contract also works that way.

AMOC

Wed, Apr 24, 2013 : 7:03 p.m.

Resident A2 - Because that's the amount budgeted by AAPS for coaching a HS golf team in that fraction of the Athletic Department budgets that get made public because they involve taxpayer oney instead of booster club money.

Resident A2

Wed, Apr 24, 2013 : 5:52 p.m.

How do you know that he makes $3,000 in a season?

brimble

Wed, Apr 24, 2013 : 12:07 p.m.

Here in another minute, the phrase "pay-for-play" will pop up again. The very real danger of that direction is the class discrimination which follows as kids from wealthier families can do yet more of the activities that kids from poorer families cannot. Sports can be very valuable in paving the way to success and character-building, most especially for kids who feel hampered by their life situations. For them, there is no difference between pay-for-play and flat-out eliminating sports. Tread carefully going forward, for mistakes are about to be made!

Thoughtful

Wed, Apr 24, 2013 : 3:06 p.m.

While wearing diamond stud earrings and $200 shoes.

Usual Suspect

Wed, Apr 24, 2013 : 1:55 p.m.

And you forgot to add, "and record video of the game on their iPhones."

Usual Suspect

Wed, Apr 24, 2013 : 1:54 p.m.

Meh. The term "scholarship" is used all over the place in many different ways. What you speak of is an "academic scholarship."

Thoughtful

Wed, Apr 24, 2013 : 1:20 p.m.

Every sport in middle school and high school has an allotment for those who cannot afford to pay, including club sports. The term scholarship is inappropriate, since that implies something academic was done to deserve a free ride. In 15 years, I've never seen a kid denied participation based on lack of ability to pay. It is interesting however, to see that some families who cannot afford to pay fees can afford to attend and pay the $5 entry fee for themselves and umpteen family members, as well as place large clothing orders for spirit wear. Yet somehow they do not have the time to fulfill their families volunteer hours, even when they are able to be at the event. If there was less abuse of the system and policies, there would be less need to cut costs.

NoPC

Wed, Apr 24, 2013 : 1:13 p.m.

The real question is, why should any student have to "pay-to-play"? It's a PUBLIC SCHOOL!! We need to get involved with the AAPS and demand that they spend our tax $$ on things that benefit the kids!!! Not someone's benefits package.

Usual Suspect

Wed, Apr 24, 2013 : 12:21 p.m.

There are scholarships available.

Chris Blackstone

Wed, Apr 24, 2013 : 11:55 a.m.

1) Cut interscholastic sports. Move all sports to intra-mural 2) Raise the minimum GPA for participating to 3.0 Regarding 1) Most high school athletes are recruited not based on high school sports season stats but on summer/travel teams and camps. Moving the sports to intra-murals would not significantly hamper college recruiting efforts but would save money while making it actually cheaper for students to participate by eliminating pay-to-play. 2) It's ridiculous that in 2013, with the AAPS stated goal of "Ann Arbor Public Schools student performance will exceed international standards in achievement", that not even a C+ average is required to play sports. If we truly want to prepare students for life after high school, we need to expect more, not less. It's the rare student who would find success at college after attaining only a 2.5 GPA in high school.

J. A. Pieper

Wed, Apr 24, 2013 : 7:33 p.m.

Sorry, Chris, if they raise the GPA requirement, they will not have enough representation of specific minority groups for the teams. It is like when the district LOWERED the GPA requirements for National Honor Society so a certain BOE member's son could qualify! Anything to give more people a chance, although they do not have to do anything on their own to earn it!

Thoughtful

Wed, Apr 24, 2013 : 3:21 p.m.

Kris, I wish there were more coaches who required that 3.0. Sounds motivating, instead of giving numerous grade checks so a kid can play. It's also so easy to coast through a school with the "mastery concept". You can retake that test and redo that homework. Or not do the homework in the first place, because no matter what, you will get a B-. Where's the motivation there Skyline? Do Pioneer and Huron do this as well?

kris

Wed, Apr 24, 2013 : 2:06 p.m.

Yes, 2.5 is a minimum. On one of my kids' teams, the coach requires a 3.0 in order to compete...with a 2.5 the kids can practice and be a member of the team.

Pete Cunningham

Wed, Apr 24, 2013 : 1:56 p.m.

The 2.5 is a minimum and, whether we like to admit it or not, has proven to be an incentive for at-risk students. I think it's up to parents and coaches to determine if the 2.5 standard fits each individual child. Some students need to work their tails off to get a 2.5, others can slack their way to a 3.5. Raising the minimum too high ignores the fact that the former type of student exists and needs help. A shining example is former Pioneer athlete James Kelly who struggled mightily in the classroom. Basketball gave Kelly a reason to raise his grades. There were many bumps along the road, but Kelly graduated, just completed his associate's degree at Owen's Community College and next year will attend the University of Miami on full scholarship. I think it's fair to say that without high school sports - or too high of a minimum standard to play - it's doubtful Kelly would have even graduated high school. Here's the article about Kelly: http://www.annarbor.com/sports/high-school/former-pioneer-basketball-player-commits-to-miami-after-years-of-academic-struggles/

Chester Drawers

Wed, Apr 24, 2013 : 1:15 p.m.

In the AAPS, a C+ earns 2.33 honor points.

Usual Suspect

Wed, Apr 24, 2013 : 12:21 p.m.

"Raise the minimum GPA for participating to 3.0" Not sure if that's the right solution, but it certainly would give my kid more playing time!

Nick Danger

Wed, Apr 24, 2013 : 11:32 a.m.

Cuts in sports may result in student athletes moving out of the district to hi profile sports programs like Catholic Central. We need to keep the Ann Arbor public Schools attractive to keep enrollment up

ThinkingOne

Wed, Apr 24, 2013 : 2:28 p.m.

NoPC YES, for more funding. The plan for education in this state under the current governor and legislature is to COMPETE for students. With schools-of-choice in effect, you don't think an active and competitive athletic department is a possible draw? It is interesting to note that as public schools are scaling back their athletic programs, charters and private schools are getting more involved in sports. Even home-schoolers have some athletic teams now. Many people do judge the entire educational experience, classes and extra-curricular activities together.

NoPC

Wed, Apr 24, 2013 : 1:09 p.m.

What? So we can get more $$ from the State??

Goober

Wed, Apr 24, 2013 : 11:21 a.m.

Unless the BOE wakes up and identifies waste to eliminate (I have all the faith in the world that they will not based on their track record), all areas will need to be cut. I vote for the elimination of all of Balas to save the athletic programs. As we know, Balas only works for Balas, does not support the schools and basically, is worthless. Save the AA athletic program.....eliminate Balas! Oh - fire all the BOE and replace them with team members who will actually provide visionary leadership for our school system. Go figure!

jns131

Wed, Apr 24, 2013 : 11:47 p.m.

Cut Balas spending and save the sports programs.

J. A. Pieper

Wed, Apr 24, 2013 : 7:29 p.m.

Keep up using your voice Goober, we need people like you!

chapmaja

Wed, Apr 24, 2013 : 10:56 a.m.

The worst two areas the AAPS can cut is coaches salaries and referees fees. The coaches will find other places to coach, or will give up coaching if they lower the salaries of the coaches. Coaches are already paid pretty poorly to begin with given the amount of time and effort they put in to the job they do. Cutting referees fees would be even worse. All league contest referees fees are mandated by the SEC, so there really isn't room to cut those. We, (I am a referee in several sports), just got back the SEC's mandated 5% pay cut we took several years ago. The SEC also already pays less for the same level of official than many other surrounding conferences do. If the AAPS gets the conference to cut fees officials may look elsewhere. If the AAPS cuts fees for non-conference games/meets, you may see officials pick up games in other districts which pay better, leaving less experienced and lower quality officials to work contests at the AAPS schools. The middle school officials in the AAPS already get paid lower than what they would get for similar work in surrounding school districts. I get just under $40.00 for a MS VB match (3 matches of 2 sets each). Doing the same 6 sets total at any other SEC school gets me an additional $10.

Basic Bob

Thu, Apr 25, 2013 : 4:13 a.m.

The quality of referees and coaches directly impacts the quality of the games. Get an inexperienced ref once in a while, it's tolerable. Face a whole season like that and you might as well not play. It will take an organized sport to a state of brutality and chaos.

nekm1

Wed, Apr 24, 2013 : 3:29 p.m.

Why keep score, if that continues to hurt the kids and the budget? It would help all here, if these sports were simply participation sports. Parents would still be engaged, and the children would be much safer. Open to everyone regardless of ability. Level field.

Thoughtful

Wed, Apr 24, 2013 : 1:56 p.m.

I've seen the older middle school students ref the 6th grade games. Perhaps at the very least, the number of refs could be scaled back on. Some of the best times my kids have had were when there weren't enough kids for the other team, the refs leave ( as quickly as possible since they are not required to stay) and a pick up game with the remaining kids is a blast. It is only middle school. And it's not like reffing a middle school game requires a masters degree.

Pete Cunningham

Wed, Apr 24, 2013 : 1:29 p.m.

To not have officials is basically to say you're not having a game. Without officials it's simply a pickup game. I don't think eliminating officials is on the table and if so I'd say that's the equivalent of turning middle school sports into one big practice session.

Thoughtful

Wed, Apr 24, 2013 : 1:04 p.m.

Do we even need refs for middle school sports? You got the pay cut from several years ago back? I'm thinking I'd like to see the teaching staff get their pay cuts back. I can count on one hand the number of adequate middle school and high school coaches I've seen, and I've seen many over many years and many sports.

PeteM

Wed, Apr 24, 2013 : 10:20 a.m.

It's hard to tell from the article what the cause of the cuts (obviously either less revenue, more expenses or both) is? I realize that schools no longer get funded directly by local property tax but I would have assumed that with the state economy stabilizing that tax revenues overallwould have as well. Is it primarily lost revenue or increased expenses? If so, what expenses?

leaguebus

Thu, Apr 25, 2013 : 3:59 a.m.

The reason we are in trouble is the 15% cut from the state. Mike, you have at least 6 years of college and your pay was cut 10-50% this year? Right!

Pete Cunningham

Wed, Apr 24, 2013 : 7:35 p.m.

Saying a teacher works seven hours a day, 185 days a year is like saying Brady Hoke works one day a week for four hours 13 weeks a year. It's simply not true. At the very least this doesn't take in to account required in-service days and parent-teacher conference. I've spent a lot of time around a lot of teachers, good and bad, but have yet to meet one that starts working when the first bell rings and stops when the final one does, or whose first day is the first day of school and the last is the first day of summer vacation.

A Voice of Reason

Wed, Apr 24, 2013 : 5:04 p.m.

Also, just remember that teachers may not get a pay increase, but I believe that they still get step increases for years of service. Remember, Michigan teachers are #6 in the nation best paid. I would love the AnnARbor.com to do a real analysis of the pay and benefits. Remember, teachers work 65% of all possible work days (185) and a 7 hour day. Good ones, we cannot pay them enough.

DonBee

Wed, Apr 24, 2013 : 1:42 p.m.

PeteM - The district has projected more than $1 million in INCREASED revenue in the 2013-14 school year (their own figures here), but they have written contracts that expected at least a 5 percent annual increase in revenue each year, so they have a budget issue.

Mike

Wed, Apr 24, 2013 : 1:34 p.m.

NoPC - you are spot on. Until teacher salaries are brought into line with the real world and what the rest of us have had to deal with, 10-50% cuts; the problem will only be talked about and the kids will continue to suffer. The union got the teachers to take a 3% cut to lock in their dues paying machine for a few more years. The teachers are being played also, look at what happened to the union members at GM ($14.00 per hr). This is what's coming if real cuts to pensions and salaries are not made now. Why can't they see this?

Pete Cunningham

Wed, Apr 24, 2013 : 1:26 p.m.

As stated in the article above, recent projections have the district's deficit at $8.67 million, so large cuts are being made to several programs to make up for the deficit. As for the actual cause of the deficit, as you said, it's a multitude of factors that at the end of the day boils down to more going out than you have coming in.

NoPC

Wed, Apr 24, 2013 : 1:07 p.m.

I would like to see the Balance Sheet so we can see the debits & credits. I'm sure there is a revenue issue (property taxes receipts have gone down in the last few years due to home valuation decreases). On most Balance Sheets, cost of labor is usually the biggest expense. Perhaps, we (the citizens who pay for the Ann Arbor Public Schools) should look at how we spend there and remove any overlapping duties or benefits being paid. As a small business person myself, I've had to make HUGE cuts in my business expenses... the biggest being my own personal income to feed my family. Just say'in....